Boy, yesterday's comment section made me feel kind of sad. Hearing about preachers who hire babysitters to keep their young ones at home on church days....thinking about all the children who will one day have to adjust to sitting in worship after years of children's ministry...and oh, hearing about the changes in that little country church. It just makes me weary.
So today I'm going to link to some articles on the topic. I know we really didn't DECIDE anything yesterday. Of course, the decision is to make with our husbands...not here on my blog anyway. Still....it seems that things are really wrong.
Here is a 2 part article by Voddie Baucham on "Nehemiah's Nursery." I had never heard this argument before, but this is a good look at scripture. Part 1 Part 2
This article is worth scanning.
Children's Ministry isn't going away in my opinion. There are curriculum writers and lots of companies who make good money off of children's programs. Many parents EXPECT something great for their children when they show up at church. Children's ministry will morph as time goes on, just as it has been doing.
So clearly, we can't wait until everything is perfect and rosy to attend church. Ain't gonna happen. The bottom line is...each family needs to prayerfully and carefully decide what their response will be. In view of scripture, and in willing obedience...what will we do?
Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts and experiences during this series!
Brenda, I think your conclusion is right: each family must pray and decide what their response is going to be, because we will never have perfection. I'll read those links. Mary R.
ReplyDeleteBrenda, you might have to drive a ways out of town to find a country church, if you are looking for a different church. It might be worth the time to drive to a church like that and you might have to look around at several different churches 10 or 20 miles outside your town or city, in each direction. Mary R.
ReplyDeleteSometimes we have to take what we can get and work it as best for our families. If we had to go to a segregated church, we simply wouldn't participate in the segregated activities. We've done it before, and it's SO much nicer than just going along with the rest of the herd and sacrificing our children to society's expectations.
ReplyDeleteRemember - there are denominations that do not list in the NCFIC, so be sure to hunt them down and check them out.
Could it be that aside from use as a tool for evangelizing children, which is what I think it was intended for at first, it (as well as women's groups) made a place for women to lead and administer and teach -- before women started going outside the home for jobs? Now that most women work outside the home, and have their jobs as an outlet for such things, women's groups and things like children's programs seem to be dwindling, at least here in small churches in rural areas. Or is that just my imagination? Mary R.
ReplyDeletetry the book "Parenting in the Pew" for some wonderful ideas on how to train your little ones during worship. we love voddie! and the true family integrated church is very difficult to find. we do not like children's church, but it isn't going away. too many parents really want to be able to put their children in separate areas so that they can "worship" fully. but how is it fully worship if the family is in different parts of the church? *sigh* take heart, more and more people are returning to the basics of family worship and are speaking out against splitting up the family the moment you walk into church on sunday morning.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: what do you think of young children sitting through a sermon on, say, Sodom and Gomorrah, and all that that entailed, and how God thought what they were doing was sin, etc.
ReplyDeleteWould you consider this an inappropriate sermon for a child to hear? Somebody I know said they thought that it would not be good for a child to hear such a sermon.
What does everybody think? Mary R.
Mary that is one of the reasons I started putting my children in junior church.I have a preacher who is very explicit about s**ual relationships.LucyT
ReplyDeleteI wondered about this. Most of us Bible-believers want sermons that tell the truth about h*m*s*xuality and things like that. If pastors don't preach about that, we consider them to be watering things down. Same thing with sermons on modesty. Anything about s*x in general -- and the Bible is full of teachings on these things. However, we recently had a parishioner decide to take her child out of service when she found out that the sermon was on The Unchanged Sin of S*d*m. (My husband puts the title of his sermon in the bulletin and sticks with the subject when he preaches.) Naturally, we respected her wishes. We don't run a cult. Parents have to decide about things like that when it comes to their young children; parents will have differences of opinion about things like that; they know when their children are ready. As a pastor, you have to do what you think is right, being led by the Holy Spirit, and some will think it is too hard; some will think it is not hard enough. Mary R.
ReplyDeleteMary,I agree that preachers should not water down scripture it is just hard to have an eight or nine year old ask what some of those words mean.So I do have a hard time allowing the smaller kids to set in on some of those sermons.We also have a preacher who preaches on purity and uses power point pictures to drive his point home.We have had to tell are preteens to turn thier heads.
ReplyDeleteAre church also supports a mission that helps fight the s** trade.That can be a bit graphic for younger hearts to deal with.It is hard for me to hear.LucyT
Lucy, wow! No, my husband doesn't preach like that or use power point (he wouldn't know how). He preaches through the Bible, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, expositorily. Rarely a topical sermon. This way, we all get the whole counsel of God, and over time, every issue that can be imagined will eventually be addressed.
ReplyDeleteAt our last church, there was no children's church, so our children were pretty young when they heard that particular sermon on S*d*m -- but we had already read that to them in the Bible and explained it; the whole Law was apparently read to those of all ages in Israel. At our present church, there is a children's church (it was in place before my husband took the church). He did, however, encourage (not force) parents of older children (12 and older) to leave their children in the sanctuary rather than in children's church, since in Israel, young men aged 12 and over were with the adults. So, that went over ok (before we came and a little while after that, the teens were going to children's church, too).
My husband would never dream of ordering anybody to do anything like make their children listen to a sermon the parents thought were not age-appropriate, as this is church, not the Army, and not a cult, and he is not a dictator-pastor. If a parent decides their child, young or older, should not hear something, that is the parent's choice. Also, no child is FORCED to go to Sunday School or anything else in our church. So far, none of this has ever come up for discussion in our church; families do what they want to concerning this.
Sounds like a great mission that is being supported by your church. I'm with you, though -- I would find it hard to hear myself, let alone children; some things, children are not ready for, it is too strong, or it puts ideas in their heads. Mary R.
My older boys currently 12 and 14 have each read through the bible yearly but we do skim over a few places with my 6,and7 years olds.I have to admit even at home it is hard for me to read and explain some of chapters to my younger children.W e are guilty of trying to explian some things in dumbed down to thier level explinations.My older boys of course are learning to be men and it is time for them to know the full trueth.I hope I am pleasing God in the way we teach his word.I was raised in church and did hear it as it was written not skimmed over.My husband will not allow the younger kids to hear some of the s**ual sin passages so I am also submitting to my husband headship in this area.
ReplyDeleteThe mission is a sadly needed one.I cannot tell you how heart breaking and life changing it is to know so many young woman and children are being sold into slavery.I am sickened by it.I hate the thought explaining this to my children.I hate that they are being raised in such a sick world.We have truely lost our way.So much of this seems so normal to so many that it just really frightens me.
Again forgot to sign my name SORRY.LucyT
ReplyDeleteHey! I'm back in town. So glad you all carried on without me. :)
ReplyDeleteI came up against this when my oldest was about 4. I was teaching her class at church around Christmastime. How do you explain to 4 year olds that it was a miracle b/c Mary was a V*RG*N? I think I said "she had never been married and wasn't even a mommy yet!" It is hard. But I think hearing about these things through the Word of God is good and powerful. Imagine, their first time hearing about something like this and it is linked to "God does not like this." The world can make sin seem exciting and wonderful. You won't get that from the word of God!
I am glad you are back.I just read your new post.I wanted to be ready to start a new school year by July but I still haven't decided what I am going to do with my freshman. HELP!I am thinking of useing dvds for my 7th grader.We have found a house we will be trying to finance this week .we haven't even listed the one we live in and it ia a hugh mess.I am exhausted justb thinking about it my age is starting to show.I am always impressed by your planning skills.DID I SAY HELP?!LucyT
ReplyDeleteI do think you are right about making sure our children hear that God does not like this from the begining.Good Point thank you .I guess I don't always feel what is being preached from our pulpit is nessesarly as much biblical as it is my preachers oppinion.I like hearing that Marys husband preached chapter by chapter thru the bible. that is a concept I have never witnessed in all my years of church.I have always gone to churched that preach on topics.I thought reading through the bible was somthing we do at home .I am thinking I need to find a new church .LucyT
ReplyDeleteLucy, I haven't even STARTED planning yet!
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine just wrote an article on Heart of the Matter online about high school. Her daughter is going to be a freshman.
LucyT, I don't think it is "dumbing it down" to explain things to children in a way they can understand. I think you are doing right. And, if your husband thinks your children are not ready for some things, you are right to submit to his leadership. Parents usually know about these things.
ReplyDeleteIf you still like your church and feel led to stay there, you don't need a new church. If it is not Biblical, then I would look elsewhere. There are some pastors that feel preaching topically is the way to go. My husband prefers the verse by verse approach -- it forces him to deal with subjects he would normally wish to avoid because they are difficult, and then the congregation sees what is in the whole Bible (at least as far as we get). There were people in our last church, when my husband preached through Exodus verse by verse, who thought Moses was just a baby in a basket -- and they'd been in church all their lives!
Of course, like you said, LucyT, you CAN go through the Bible verse by verse yourself at home. Mary R.
This has been an interesting topic, Brenda, and I think your conclusion was right-on: these things are not going to go away, and every family must decide what their response is going to be. Mary R.
ReplyDeleteHey Lucy...e-mail me.
ReplyDeleteBrenda and Mary,It has been really helpfull having a place to bounce all my thought around besides my own brain.That begans to hurt after a while.smile.I am not leaving my church anytime soon just changing the way we worship at it.I will be praying and listning a lot harder for an awnser.I know God will awnser and it may be that He will use our family where we are.
ReplyDeleteMy uncle the one I have talked of in some of the comments had a stroke this week.If any of you felt led to I would love for you to remember him in your prayers.He can't talk much or write.It didn't effect his mobility.However he has spent most of his life singing and preaching this is a hard road.
LucyT
Will pray. Mary R.
ReplyDeleteIt does us good to think once in a while, doesn't it? This is why I like blogging.