Sunday, June 13, 2010

Bam! There It Is

I never heard it explained like this before. Boy does it makes sense:

"...the difference in conclusions between Paul and the feminist movement of today is rooted in a fundamental difference in their points of view relative to the constitution of the human race. To Paul, the human race is made up of families, and every several organism — the church included — is composed of families, united together by this or that bond. The relation of the sexes in the family follow it therefore into the church. To the feminist movement the human race is made up of individuals; a woman is just another individual by the side of the man, and it can see no reason for any differences in dealing with the two."

The quote is from this article. And, by the way, it was written in 1919.


  1. Women are individuals with different individual personalities, just like men are. BUT...families are very important and being united as a family is more important than individuality.

  2. I think Paul also was talking from a "heavenly" worldview. He believed that "whoever humbles himself shall be exalted and whoever exalts himself shall be humbled". The women that I talk to that are so ardently against submitting themselves to their husbands are much more of the mindset that they must look to their own best interests because no one else is going to do so.

  3. My sister in law got married Friday, she has always walked to her own tune but mostly on unimportant stuff. But with the wedding came all of her insane views on marriage, submission, etc. It truely hurt my heart to hear some of the things she thinks. She is not taking his last name, I am so saddened by it all.

    I do not feel that I am an individual besides the sense that I am responsible for my actions and my relationship with God, other than that I am under my husbands umbrella and HE alone is responsible for this family.

    If you look at it this way (like you said as a family unit) this makes sense that women are not individuals. You go from your fathers umbrella of family to your husbands.

    I will gladly give up being an individual to be under my husband. Now under is the word that FREAKS women out but add protective and you would think they would enjoy that. People are so brainwashed by the liberation of women being so important. What are supposed to be liberated from.. yes I have a mind, yes I can think.. I am glad I can vote but I do not in any way mind being submissive to my husband!

    Now to be fair he is not a very commanding hubbie, in fact he is rarely commanding enough but ... that doesnt change the fact that I LOVE being MRS. HAROLD DAVID THOMPSON and dont mind giving up my individuality for the safety and security of my husband and GODS shelter.

  4. Carrie, you don't believe you have your own thoughts? Do you by default just believe everything your husband believes? You don't believe you have your own feelings? Your own interests? Your own walk with the Lord? Your own job to do? ALL these things are marks of a woman being an individual. It is ok to be an individual within a family unit. Family order still needs to be right, but God never said we weren't individuals.

    Personally, my husband appreciates that I don't believe the same as him on some issues, and he thinks that the idea of me deciding to believe what he does just because he's my husband is ludicrous. Some of the things that we differ on are actually reasons why he married me. For instance, I don't wear pants at all. My husband doesn't care if I do or I don't, but since my standard of modesty is higher than his he is very happy to have me live what I believe, and if we have any daughters, to teach them the same way also.

    I sell Avon to make money, he fixes computers. Avon is more than a business to me, it's also a hobby, something fun, something I'm interested in. My husband isn't that interested, but is glad I have something that makes me happy that makes money from home. I'm interested in his computer business, but I don't fix computers. Again, God gave me an individual job and hobby apart from my husband.

    I just had a miscarriage. My husband and I deal with it differently. I am crying and talking about it and grieving. My husband is grieving, but is relatively silent and hasn't shed a tear. That doesn't mean I have to deal with it the same way he does. I'm and individual.

    I also have my own relationship with the Lord that is separate to my husband's relationship with the Lord. Together we chose a church to attend, and together we choose how to raise the children to love the Lord, but my personal relations hip with the Lord is MY personal relationship with the Lord.

    These are just some very basic and limited examples of ways that we as women are individuals, within the context of family. I do believe Brenda's quote to be off slightly. We do have liberty to be individuals so long as it works within the role God has given us as women. Which includes submission to our husbands.

  5. First off I want to say that something I said were obviously misconstrued.

    I think I clearly stated that I believe my individuality included my personal relationship with God, and my own reactions to to people meaning how I deal with things, people, situations etc. I also clearly stated that I believe I have a mind, and of course I can think. Of course I have different opinions from my husband, BUT the difference between my different opinons and perhaps (my sister in laws) is that she believes she has the right to ALL her own opinions to the exlusion of even her own husband (OR GOD) I personally have help guide my husband through many choices but it was at his asking. I dont believe that that I am completly individual of my husband in the aspect that if we DO have differening opinions and there need be only one is a situation, HIS opinion counts, not solely mine.

    If I wanted to live being a complete individual and not having anyone have a say over me or my thoughts or my feelings or my lifestlye or my anything... I would probabaly be my sister in law and not have a relationship with God or the "right" relationship with my husband, if any husband at all.

    Yes God made each of us unique in the way that we each have a purpose and we each have dislikes and likes, we each have a personality... but what I am trying badly to convey is that when my individuality stands in the way of my husband being head of this household... then I gladly give it up to be under his protective covering.

    I am saying this very badly but Mrs. W I think you might possible misconstrue anything I say because we have a different opinon. I know what I believe, my husband and I have talked at lenth about this and I DO not nor have I ever, ever felt like less of a person around him or a doormat. WE are quite happy with how we live and we do personally find it biblically accurate... I wish I could explain it better and be able to really convey what I mean. :)

  6. btw.. if I sounded mad I am not. I just wish I could explain myself better! :)

  7. Carrie, your second explaination makes much more sense. Thank-you. I misunderstood when you stated that you weren't an individual. I come from a perspective where I know (and until a few months ago went to church with) a lot of women that have been brainwashed into believing that they MUST believe everything exactly the same as their husband, that they MUST NOT study anything if their husband doesn't also study it, and that they must study it only after he has, must ask their husband's permission to read a book and must not read it until their husband has screened it, that their husband is able to instruct them on how to clean things in the method he wants it done (as in, one woman's husband wanted to "teach his wife a lesson" and made her clean the floor with a toothbrush).

    All that to say, sorry I misunderstood, I hope you can see why I might have.

  8. I think Mrs. W, that your experiences (we all bring our own experiences to any discussion), as well as Carrie's, make a difference in how we perceive things.

    I tend to lean towards Carrie's view (surprise surprise!) and I feel that way even though I am married to a man that is more commanding.

    Of course, there is a large gulf between a man who is commanding in a confident way and a man who is commanding in a bullying way.

    I study all kinds of things that my husband could care less about. If I share something that I read or studied that he thinks I should have bypassed, he tells me so and I adjust my behavior accordingly going forward.

    He has never read my eamil, rarely even reads my blog, and only occasionally glances the covrs of books I'm reading. As commanding as he is, he doesn't encroach upon my individuality so long as my primary job (caring for him and he children) as well as my spiritual life, isn't slipping.

    But even with all the individualism I am free to enjoy, I rarely think of myself as an individual, aside from my relationship to Christ. I find myself saying "we" or "us" or "our" when talking to people and unless someone asks why, I rarely stop to think about it. In my mind, my individual thoughts come second to the direction we are going in as a couple, and HE decides that.

    The older I get, the more I appreciate having his protection and guidance. And the more I realize how far off course we'd be if I was allowed to call the shots- even for myself.

    Does that make me a doormat? Possibly. But I'm a happy doormat.


I don't get to talk to a lot of actual grown-ups during the day, so your comments make me really happy! :)